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Scott Hedrick
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 Posted: Sun May 13, 2007 4:44 am Post subject: Re: ...This is How Far Nasa has Fallen.....Even I can't beli |
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"Greg D. Moore (Strider)" <mooregr_deleteth1s@greenms.com> wrote in message
news:1ej1i.14319$3P3.11048@newsread3.news.pas.earthlink.net...
| Quote: |
"Scott Hedrick" <dinehnmNOSPAM@yahoo.com> wrote in message
Pat, I didn't say to renounce it- I said to eliminate it by writing a
check. In other words, pay it off.
Which financially amounts to the same thing.
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Exactly. But it *looks* better.
| Quote: |
The government can't pay it off w/o funds it doesn't have.
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Not having funds has never stopped government spending before. THis is why I
laughed at all that crap during the Clinton years about having a budget
surplus. That was a complete and total lie. First, that was true *only* by
including all the trust fund money in the budget, even though that money
couldn't be spent on anything (only it's borrowed right away, so the money
doesn't actually go into the trust fund). We need two budgets- one for
discretionary funds, and a separate one for trust funds. Without trust fund
income to cover the deficit, we'd see how bad it really is. If you have a
debt that you can't immediately write a good check and pay in full, *you
don't have a budget surplus*. "Apply the surplus to the debt"- what total
poppycock, but the complete lack of interest by the public shows just how
bad the situation is. |
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Fred J. McCall
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| Posted: Sun May 13, 2007 5:26 am Post subject: Re: ...This is How Far Nasa has Fallen.....Even I can't beli |
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"Scott Hedrick" <dinehnmNOSPAM@yahoo.com> wrote:
:
:"Pat Flannery" <flanner@daktel.com> wrote in message
:news:134aujaoibsl454@corp.supernews.com...
:>
:> ... and no other nation is ever going to
:> buy American bonds again, because their real worth is approximately that
:> of toilet paper.
:>
:
:About where they are now.
:
Well, I guess that response tells us just how desperately you are in
need of a clue...
--
"False words are not only evil in themselves, but they infect the
soul with evil."
-- Socrates |
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Pat Flannery
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| Posted: Mon May 14, 2007 3:32 am Post subject: Re: ...This is How Far Nasa has Fallen.....Even I can't beli |
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Rand Simberg wrote:
| Quote: |
I've got to work on this shit; I may have come up unintentionally with
an entirely new way of insulting someone in a usenet posting;
Yes, *that's* what the world has been waiting for.
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U0.
Pat |
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Jochem Huhmann
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| Posted: Mon May 14, 2007 4:17 am Post subject: Re: ...This is How Far Nasa has Fallen.....Even I can't beli |
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"Paul F. Dietz" <dietz@dls.net> writes:
| Quote: |
Pat Flannery wrote:
Its total cost is going to dwarf anything ever done in space up till
now, but you're right; that is one of the few worthwhile things to do
in space that would make that huge cost completely worth it.
The U.S. can't afford to do it alone - it needs a international
consortium to pay for it.
A project that the US can't afford to do itself is inevitably too
expensive to be worthwhile to do at all.
|
What *can* the US afford to do itself right now?
Jochem
--
"A designer knows he has arrived at perfection not when there is no
longer anything to add, but when there is no longer anything to take away."
- Antoine de Saint-Exupery |
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Jochem Huhmann
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| Posted: Mon May 14, 2007 4:24 am Post subject: Re: ...This is How Far Nasa has Fallen.....Even I can't beli |
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Fred J. McCall <fmccall@earthlink.net> writes:
| Quote: |
Now, to put things in perspective (I know how you hate that, Pat),
think about what a typical total personal debt load is (including
things like your home mortgage, cars, etc). Compare that to your
income, assets, and obligations. Now do the same thing with the Feds.
It quickly becomes obvious that we don't really have a serious debt
problem at the national level.
|
So you're having a crash landing with your new spacecraft and you notice
your left hand is missing. Then you notice your right hand is missing,
too. Now you conclude that you don't have a serious hand problem at the
bodily level.
Jochem
--
"A designer knows he has arrived at perfection not when there is no
longer anything to add, but when there is no longer anything to take away."
- Antoine de Saint-Exupery |
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Rand Simberg
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| Posted: Mon May 14, 2007 4:46 am Post subject: Re: ...This is How Far Nasa has Fallen.....Even I can't beli |
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On Mon, 14 May 2007 02:17:28 +0200, in a place far, far away, Jochem
Huhmann <joh@gmx.net> made the phosphor on my monitor glow in such a
way as to indicate that:
| Quote: |
"Paul F. Dietz" <dietz@dls.net> writes:
Pat Flannery wrote:
Its total cost is going to dwarf anything ever done in space up till
now, but you're right; that is one of the few worthwhile things to do
in space that would make that huge cost completely worth it.
The U.S. can't afford to do it alone - it needs a international
consortium to pay for it.
A project that the US can't afford to do itself is inevitably too
expensive to be worthwhile to do at all.
What *can* the US afford to do itself right now?
|
What kind of a question is that? We are obviously doing many things
for ourself.
And in reality, what can't it? Just because we choose not to do
something doesn't mean that we can't afford it. |
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Scott Hedrick
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| Posted: Mon May 14, 2007 5:24 am Post subject: Re: ...This is How Far Nasa has Fallen.....Even I can't beli |
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"Jochem Huhmann" <joh@gmx.net> wrote in message
news:m2646wqmw7.fsf@marvin.revier.com...
| Quote: |
"Paul F. Dietz" <dietz@dls.net> writes:
Pat Flannery wrote:
Its total cost is going to dwarf anything ever done in space up till
now, but you're right; that is one of the few worthwhile things to do
in space that would make that huge cost completely worth it.
The U.S. can't afford to do it alone - it needs a international
consortium to pay for it.
A project that the US can't afford to do itself is inevitably too
expensive to be worthwhile to do at all.
What *can* the US afford to do itself right now?
|
Just think- if Jodie Foster had been a *real* scientist, instead of going to
Iraq we could have built The Machine without needing an international
Consortium. On the other hand, without Japan as a player, once Gary Busey's
spawn did his nasty work, there'd be no second chance at Vega. |
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Fred J. McCall
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| Posted: Mon May 14, 2007 7:39 am Post subject: Re: ...This is How Far Nasa has Fallen.....Even I can't beli |
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Jochem Huhmann <joh@gmx.net> wrote:
:"Paul F. Dietz" <dietz@dls.net> writes:
:
:> Pat Flannery wrote:
:>
:>> Its total cost is going to dwarf anything ever done in space up till
:>> now, but you're right; that is one of the few worthwhile things to do
:>> in space that would make that huge cost completely worth it.
:>> The U.S. can't afford to do it alone - it needs a international
:>> consortium to pay for it.
:>
:> A project that the US can't afford to do itself is inevitably too
:> expensive to be worthwhile to do at all.
:
:What *can* the US afford to do itself right now?
:
Pretty much anything it really wants to...
--
"Millions for defense, but not one cent for tribute."
-- Charles Pinckney |
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Fred J. McCall
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| Posted: Mon May 14, 2007 7:46 am Post subject: Re: ...This is How Far Nasa has Fallen.....Even I can't beli |
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Jochem Huhmann <joh@gmx.net> wrote:
:Fred J. McCall <fmccall@earthlink.net> writes:
:
:> Now, to put things in perspective (I know how you hate that, Pat),
:> think about what a typical total personal debt load is (including
:> things like your home mortgage, cars, etc). Compare that to your
:> income, assets, and obligations. Now do the same thing with the Feds.
:> It quickly becomes obvious that we don't really have a serious debt
:> problem at the national level.
:
:So you're having a crash landing with your new spacecraft and you notice
:your left hand is missing. Then you notice your right hand is missing,
:too. Now you conclude that you don't have a serious hand problem at the
:bodily level.
:
Are you really insane or just not paying attention?
Oddly, despite all the silly idiocy that seems to get uttered about US
debt, we seem to be getting along just fine.
I'm sure you'll eventually figure it out...
--
"Ignorance is preferable to error, and he is less remote from the
truth who believes nothing than he who believes what is wrong."
-- Thomas Jefferson |
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mike flugennock
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| Posted: Mon May 14, 2007 4:53 pm Post subject: Re: ...This is How Far Nasa has Fallen.....Even I can't beli |
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Rand Simberg wrote:
| Quote: |
On Mon, 14 May 2007 02:17:28 +0200, in a place far, far away, Jochem
Huhmann <joh@gmx.net> made the phosphor on my monitor glow in such a
way as to indicate that:
What *can* the US afford to do itself right now?
|
Uhh...get hopelessly stuck in a bloody years-long quagmire that sucks
down all the money we could be using to finance a proper human
spaceflight program?
| Quote: |
What kind of a question is that? We are obviously doing many things
for ourself.
|
Correction: We are obviously doing many things _to_ ourselves.
--
..
"Though I could not caution all, I yet may warn a few:
Don't lend your hand to raise no flag atop no ship of fools!"
--grateful dead.
_______________________________________________________________
Mike Flugennock, flugennock at sinkers dot org
"Mikey'zine": dubya dubya dubya dot sinkers dot org |
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Pat Flannery
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| Posted: Mon May 14, 2007 10:24 pm Post subject: Re: ...This is How Far Nasa has Fallen.....Even I can't beli |
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Jochem Huhmann wrote:
| Quote: |
What *can* the US afford to do itself right now?
|
We can fix our national debt; the key is getting a loan from The World Bank.
Luckily we have an inside edge on doing this....until at least the
middle of the week. :-)
Pat |
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Pat Flannery
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| Posted: Mon May 14, 2007 11:22 pm Post subject: Re: ...This is How Far Nasa has Fallen.....Even I can't beli |
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Rand Simberg wrote:
| Quote: |
And in reality, what can't it? Just because we choose not to do
something doesn't mean that we can't afford it.
|
Can we afford to chose to go to the Moon and do the other thing? You
know, the war?
This whole thing is pretty funny in its own sad way.
First the Republicans were bitching about the tax-and-spend Democrats,
and how they've bloated the size of government.
So, they cut back the taxes at the same time they vastly up government
spending, and the national debt, not surprisingly, goes nuts.
But don't worry, we can sell government bonds to other countries to
finance the interest payments on it.
In 2006, we spent $406 billion in interest payments on it. That's
around $1,300.00 for every man, woman, and child in the country. Now if
we want lower taxes, here's a way of cutting them down - pay off the debt.
But are we going to start paying off the national debt itself, rather
than just paying the interest payments year-to-year? No, of course
not...because you couldn't do that without raising taxes.
Yup, makes a lot of sense, doesn't it?
So, as the debt grows, our taxes will rise due to the increasing
interest payments on it, because we can't pay it off without raising
taxes....if no one else, at least China thanks us for this concept on a
year-to-year basis as it spends the money from our government bonds it
has cashed in to help build up its economy...and help flood us with
cheap goods that steadily erode our own manufacturing sector...but down
worry, because you can live cheaper now due to low cost Chinese imports,
so a minimum wage job is fine.
Then one day, not too far in the future, as our debt is through the
roof, and we are expecting the Chinese to buy the bonds again...they say
they and the world no longer have faith in the dollar due to our
sky-high national debt...maybe it's time for us to convert our national
currency to something more sound, say Yuans.
But they could still pick up those U.S. bonds for a few more years if
the U.S. could give them a little something in exchange for doing
that...say Alaska and Hawaii.
We can talk about California a few years more down the line. :-)
Pat |
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Rand Simberg
Guest
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| Posted: Mon May 14, 2007 11:31 pm Post subject: Re: ...This is How Far Nasa has Fallen.....Even I can't beli |
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On Mon, 14 May 2007 14:22:50 -0500, in a place far, far away, Pat
Flannery <flanner@daktel.com> made the phosphor on my monitor glow in
such a way as to indicate that:
| Quote: |
Rand Simberg wrote:
And in reality, what can't it? Just because we choose not to do
something doesn't mean that we can't afford it.
Can we afford to chose to go to the Moon and do the other thing? You
know, the war?
|
Of course. We may not choose to, but we could if it was important. |
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Borderline
Guest
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| Posted: Mon May 14, 2007 11:54 pm Post subject: Re: ...This is How Far Nasa has Fallen.....Even I can't beli |
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On May 14, 2:22 pm, Pat Flannery <flan...@daktel.com> wrote:
| Quote: |
Rand Simberg wrote:
And in reality, what can't it? Just because we choose not to do
something doesn't mean that we can't afford it.
Can we afford to chose to go to the Moon and do the other thing? You
know, the war?
This whole thing is pretty funny in its own sad way.
First the Republicans were bitching about the tax-and-spend Democrats,
and how they've bloated the size of government.
So, they cut back the taxes at the same time they vastly up government
spending, and the national debt, not surprisingly, goes nuts.
But don't worry, we can sell government bonds to other countries to
finance the interest payments on it.
In 2006, we spent $406 billion in interest payments on it. That's
around $1,300.00 for every man, woman, and child in the country. Now if
we want lower taxes, here's a way of cutting them down - pay off the debt.
But are we going to start paying off the national debt itself, rather
than just paying the interest payments year-to-year? No, of course
not...because you couldn't do that without raising taxes.
Yup, makes a lot of sense, doesn't it?
So, as the debt grows, our taxes will rise due to the increasing
interest payments on it, because we can't pay it off without raising
taxes....if no one else, at least China thanks us for this concept on a
year-to-year basis as it spends the money from our government bonds it
has cashed in to help build up its economy...and help flood us with
cheap goods that steadily erode our own manufacturing sector...but down
worry, because you can live cheaper now due to low cost Chinese imports,
so a minimum wage job is fine.
Then one day, not too far in the future, as our debt is through the
roof, and we are expecting the Chinese to buy the bonds again...they say
they and the world no longer have faith in the dollar due to our
sky-high national debt...maybe it's time for us to convert our national
currency to something more sound, say Yuans.
But they could still pick up those U.S. bonds for a few more years if
the U.S. could give them a little something in exchange for doing
that...say Alaska and Hawaii.
We can talk about California a few years more down the line. :-)
Pat
|
If going back to the Moon had some value, something other then jobs
for government employees then the effort might be worth talking
about. It doesnt.
Its just spending money to spend money. OK a lot of programs do that,
but we need to cut them out as well.
Robert |
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Pat Flannery
Guest
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| Posted: Mon May 14, 2007 11:55 pm Post subject: Re: ...This is How Far Nasa has Fallen.....Even I can't beli |
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Fred J. McCall wrote:
| Quote: |
Oddly, despite all the silly idiocy that seems to get uttered about US
debt, we seem to be getting along just fine.
|
And if we put everything on the credit card from here on in, we'll never
go bankrupt, as long as we just pay the monthly minimum or never hit our
spending lim....whoops... :-)
Pat |
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