Aeronautics Industry Aeronautics Industry    FAQ   Search   Memberlist   Usergroups   Register   Profile   Log in to check your private messages   Log in  MEN ON THE MOON -- Video Remembrance -- Death of Wally Schir Goto page 1, 2  Next          Aeronautics Industry Forum Index -> Aeronautics Industry View previous topic :: View next topic   Author Message Ed Conrad Guest Posted: Fri May 04, 2007 4:00 pm    Post subject: MEN ON THE MOON -- Video Remembrance -- Death of Wally Schir < < http://www.wilsonsalmanac.com/images1/apollo_11_logo2.jpg < Quote: http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/b/b7/NYTapollo11walk.jpg/233px-NYTapollo11walk.jpg We pay tribute to Walter M. "Wally" Schirra -- the courageous Mercury, Gemini and Apollo astronaut -- who died this week at age 84. < Sadly, Schirra never had an opportunity to step on the moon. < He wasn't alone, however. You see, NONE of the U.S. astronauts ever stepped on the moon. < Certainly not Neil Armstrong nor Michael Collins on July 20, 1969. Nor anyone who came later. < That was the day we all sat glued to the fuzzy black-and-white pictures on our TV screen to watch it, along with some 600 million other people around the world. < We couldn't believe what we were seeing. Were WE ever gullible! It HAD to be true. It couldn't possibly have been a NASA hoax. It couldn't have been a theatrical act done on earth -- or could it? The thought never entered our mind, and anyone who entertained that possibility was castrated with a rusty pocket knife. < But, hmmm!, we may have been the victim of a colossal con job. < http://www.gaiaguys.net/moontruth.htm < Hmmm! I just wonder what a voice analysis of Neil Armstrong would reveal. Maybe then you'd believe me. < Ed Conrad Quote: http://www.edconrad.com < Man As Old as Coal < and < Proof of Life After Death < =============================== < Quote: U.S. PROFESSIONAL SCIENTIFIC SOCIETES American Association for the Advancement of Science American Anthropological Association American Association of Colleges of Pharmacy American Association of Cereal Chemists American Association of Engineering Societies American Association of Physics Teachers American Association of University Professors American Association of University Women American Astronautical Society American Astronomical Society American Chemical Society American College of Dentists American Dental Association American Economic Association American Educational Research Association American Ethnological Society American Fisheries Society American Geological Institute American Geophysical Union American Institute of Aeronautics and Astronautics American Institute of Biological Sciences American Institute of Chemical Engineers American Institute of Chemists American Mathematical Society American Medical Association American Meteorological Society American Nuclear Society American Oil Chemists' Society American Physical Society American Physiological Society American Phytopathological Society American Psychiatric Association American Psychological Association American Society for Cell Biology American Society for Engineering Education American Society for Horticultural Science American Society for Information Science ASM International American Society for Microbiology American Society for Pharmacology and Experimental Therapeutics American Society for Quality Control American Society of Aesthetics American Society of Agricultural Engineers American Society of Agronomy American Society of Animal Science American Society of Civil Engineers American Society of Mechanical Engineers American Society of Plant Physiologists American Society of Zoologists American Speech-Language-Hearing Association American Statistical Association American Vacuum Society Association of American Geographers Association of Research Libraries Association of Southeastern Biologists Association for Women in Science Astronomical Society of the Pacific Biophysical Society Crop Science Society of America Ecological Society of America Entomological Society of America FASEB (Federation of American Societies for Experimental Biology) Geological Society of America History of Science Society Industrial Research Institute Institute of Electrical and Electronics Engineers, Inc.(IEEE) Institute of Industrial Engineers Institute of Navigation Instrument Society of America International Association for Impact Assessment International Communication Association International Society for Measurement and Control International Society for Systems Sciences Marine Technology Society Mathematical Association of America Medical Library Association, Inc. 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Sigma Xi, The Scientific Research Society Society of American Foresters Society for Applied Anthropology Society for Economic Botany Society for Industrial Microbiology Society for Social Studies of Science Society of Women Engineers Soil Science Society of America Speech Communication Association Volunteers in Technical Assistance (VITA) The Wildlife Conservation Society Quote: NATURAL HISTORY MUSEUMS Academy of Natural Sciences of Philadelphia Alaska Museum of Natural History Alaska State Museums, Juneau, Alaska Albany Museum, Rhodes University, Grahamston, South Africa The Raymond M. Alf Museum of Paleontology, Claremont, Calif American Museum of Natural History, New York City, New York Arizona-Sonora Desert Museum Australian Museum Online Australian National Botanical Garden Berkeley Natural History Museums consortium, Berkeley, California Bernice Bishop Museum, Honolulu, Hawaii Bob Campbell Geology Museum, Clemson University Buena Vista Museum of Natural History Burke Museum, University of Washington, Seattle The California Academy of Sciences Canadian Museum of Nature Carnegie Museum of Natural History, Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania Centennial Museum, University of Texas at El Paso The Notebaert Nature Museum, Chicago, Illinois Chula Vista Nature Center, Chula Vista, California Cincinnati Museum Center, Cincinnati, Ohio City of Santa Cruz Museum of Natural History Cleveland Museum of Natural History, Cleveland, Ohio College of Eastern Utah Prehistoric Museum Connecticut State Museum of Natural History Cumberland Lodge, Museum, and Center for Leadership Studies, Williamsburg, Kentucky Dallas Museum of Natural History Denver Museum of Nature & Science, Denver, Colorado Johnston Geology Museum, Emporia, Kansas Essig Museum of Entomology, University of California, Berkeley Fernbank Museum of Natural History, Atlanta, Georgia Fick Fossil and History Museum, Oakley, Kansas The Field Museum of Natural History, Chicago Finnish Museum of Natural History: Botanical Museum The Florida Museum of Natural History Georgia Museum of Natural History Harvard Museum of Natural History Haus der Natur, Cismar, Germany Haus der Natur, Salzburg, Austria The High Desert Museum, Bend, Oregon Honolulu Community College Dinosaur Exhibit, Honolulu, Hawaii Hooper Virtual Paleontological Museum, Canada Houston Museum of Natural Science Humboldt State University Natural History Museum, Humboldt, California Hunterian Museum and Art Gallery, Glasgow, Scotland Illinois Natural History Survey Illinois State Museum Institute of Systematics, Evolution of Animals, Polish Academy of Sciences Kansas University Natural History Museum, Lawrence, Kansas Los Angeles County Museum of Natural History Louisiana State University Museum of Natural Science Manchester Museum, University of Manchester, England Massachusetts Museum of Natural History, University of Massachusetts Milwaukee Public Museum, Milwaukee, Wisconsin Missouri Botanical Garden Monterey Bay Aquarium, Monterey, California Montshire Museum of Science, Norwich, Vermont Musée de Minéralogie, Êcole des Mines, Paris Musée d'Histoire Naturelle, Fribourg, Switzerland Musée National d'Histoire Naturelle, Paris, France Musée National d'Histoire Naturelle,Luxembourg Muséum d'Histoire Naturelle de Genève (Natural History), Geneva Museo di Storia Naturale di Firenze, Firenze (Florence), Italy Museo di Storia Naturale dell'Università di Pisa, Italy Museo Mundo de Ambar, Santo Domingo, Dominican Republic Museo Nacional de Ciencias Naturales de Madrid Museo Tridentino di Scienze Naturali, Trento, Italy Museon, Den Haag (The Hague), Netherlands Museum of Natural History - Cormack Planetarium, Providence, RI Museums of Natural History, University of Copenhagen, Denmark Museum of Natural Sciences, Brussels, Belgium Museum of Southwestern Biology, University of New Mexico Museum of Vertebrate Zoology, University of California, Berkeley Museum of Victoria, Melbourne, Australia National Museum of Natural History, Smithsonian Institution Washington, DC National Museum of Natural History: Naturalis, Leiden, Netherlands The Natural History Museum, Berne, Switzerland The Natural History Museum, London Natuurhistorisch Museum Maastricht, The Netherlands Natuurmuseum Rotterdam, The Netherlands Neanderthal Museum, Mettmann, Germany New England Aquarium, Boston, Massachusetts The New Mexico Museum of Natural History and Science The New York State Museum Nichols Arboretum, University of Michigan North Carolina Museum of Life and Science The North Carolina State Museum of Natural Sciences Nova Scotia Museum The Oakland Museum of California, Oakland, California The Oklahoma Biological Survey Oklahoma Museum of Natural History Pacific Grove Museum of Natural History, Monterey County, Cal. Paleontological Museum, University of Oslo, Norway The Peabody Museum of Natural History, Yale University Pratt Museum of Natural History, Amherst College Provincial Museum of Alberta, Edmonton, Alberta, Canada The Rankin Museum of American and Natural History The Raptor Center, University of Minnesota Redpath Museum, McGill University, Montréal, Qué., Canada The Royal British Columbia Museum The Royal Ontario Museum (ROM), Toronto The Royal Tyrrell Museum of Paleontology, Alberta, Canada San Diego Natural History Museum, San Diego, California Santa Barbara Museum of Natural History Satrosphere , Aberdeen, Scotland Senckenberg Natural History Museum, Frankfurt, Germany Sierra College Natural History Museum The Smithsonian Institution, National Museum of Natural History St. Louis Science Center Staatliches Museum für Naturkunde, Stuttgart, Germany State Darwin Museum, Moscow, Russia Birch Aquarium-Museum, Scripps Institute of Oceanography Sternberg Museum of Natural History Stoke-on-Trent City Museum Mayborn Museum Complex, Baylor University The Swedish Museum of Natural History Tallahassee Museum of History and Natural Science Tate Geological Museum, Casper, Wyoming The Tennessee Aquarium, Chattanooga, Tennessee The Texas Memorial Museum, University of Texas at Austin Teylers Museum, Haarlem, The Netherlands University of Alaska Museum, Fairbanks, Alaska University of Alberta Museum of Zoology University of California Museum of Paleontology University of Colorado Museum of Natural History University of Michigan Museum of Paleontology University of Michigan Museum of Zoology University of Michigan Exhibit Museum of Natural History University of Nebraska State Museum, Lincoln, Nebraska University of Oregon Museum of Natural History University of Washington Fish Collection University of Wisconsin-Madison Geology Museum University of Wyoming Geological Museum The Vanderbilt Museum, Centerport, Long Island, New York The Virginia Living Museum, Newport News, Virginia Virginia Marine Science Museum, Hampton Roads, Virginia Virginia Museum of Natural History Virginia Museum of Natural History, Virginia Tech branch Voralberger Naturschau Dornbirn, Dornbirn, Austria Worldwide Museum of Natural History Wyoming Dinosaur Center, Thermopolis, Wyoming Zoological Museum of University of Amsterdam, Netherlands Zoological Museum of the University of Copenhagen, Denmark Back to top   Ads Advertising Sponsor Mike Schilling Guest Posted: Fri May 04, 2007 7:39 pm    Post subject: Re: MEN ON THE MOON -- Video Remembrance -- Death of Wally S "Ed Conrad" <edconrad@verizon.net> wrote in message news:7l7m33puk9o3l3c2n8p6frhl8uqqglu3rf@4ax.com... Quote: Certainly not Neil Armstrong nor Michael Collins on July 20, 1969. Conrad, setting a new personal record, is half right. Back to top   Ads Advertising Sponsor Brion K. Lienhart Guest Posted: Fri May 04, 2007 9:01 pm    Post subject: Re: MEN ON THE MOON -- Video Remembrance -- Death of Wally S Mike Schilling wrote: Quote: "Ed Conrad" <edconrad@verizon.net> wrote in message news:7l7m33puk9o3l3c2n8p6frhl8uqqglu3rf@4ax.com... Certainly not Neil Armstrong nor Michael Collins on July 20, 1969. Conrad, setting a new personal record, is half right. Not that smacky whackjob ever replies to these, but what exactly would be the point of faking the moon landing? Is the whole space program a fake, or just the manned moon landings? Is it a gigantic conspiracy to cover up the fact that the sun really does revolve around the earth? Back to top   Ads Advertising Sponsor Mike Schilling Guest Posted: Fri May 04, 2007 10:23 pm    Post subject: Re: MEN ON THE MOON -- Video Remembrance -- Death of Wally S "Brion K. Lienhart" <brionl@lienhart.name> wrote in message news:wpOdndp-jJFs-6bbnZ2dnUVZ_qPinZ2d@comcast.com... Quote: Mike Schilling wrote: "Ed Conrad" <edconrad@verizon.net> wrote in message news:7l7m33puk9o3l3c2n8p6frhl8uqqglu3rf@4ax.com... Certainly not Neil Armstrong nor Michael Collins on July 20, 1969. Conrad, setting a new personal record, is half right. Not that smacky whackjob ever replies to these, but what exactly would be the point of faking the moon landing? Is the whole space program a fake, or just the manned moon landings? Is it a gigantic conspiracy to cover up the fact that the sun really does revolve around the earth? All the pictures of the Earth from space are obvious fakes, because they make the Earth look round. Back to top   Ads Advertising Sponsor OM Guest Posted: Fri May 04, 2007 11:06 pm    Post subject: Re: MEN ON THE MOON -- Video Remembrance -- Death of Wally S On Fri, 04 May 2007 18:23:32 GMT, "Mike Schilling" <mscottschilling@hotmail.com> wrote: Quote: All the pictures of the Earth from space are obvious fakes, because they make the Earth look round. ....Precisely. This is what the Earth *really* looks like from space: http://steveterrell.blogspot.com/BIZARROWORLD.jpg OM -- ]=====================================[ ] OMBlog - http://www.io.com/~o_m/omworld [ ] Let's face it: Sometimes you *need* [ ] an obnoxious opinion in your day! [ ]=====================================[ Back to top   Ads Advertising Sponsor Greg D. Moore (Strider) Guest Posted: Sat May 05, 2007 12:58 am    Post subject: Re: MEN ON THE MOON -- Video Remembrance -- Death of Wally S "OM" <om@all_trolls_must_DIE.com> wrote in message news:f01n331hvq90jbp8f5d2rr3htl63h64ck8@4ax.com... Quote: On Fri, 04 May 2007 18:23:32 GMT, "Mike Schilling" mscottschilling@hotmail.com> wrote: All the pictures of the Earth from space are obvious fakes, because they make the Earth look round. ...Precisely. This is what the Earth *really* looks like from space: http://steveterrell.blogspot.com/BIZARROWORLD.jpg So, when Bugs Bunny has to take a RIGHT turn at Albuquerque, he really means it. Reminds me, my Trig/Calc teacher in HS had a series of posters showing what the Earth would look like if it were the form of various geometric forms, a saddle, toroid, etc. Quote: OM -- ]=====================================[ ] OMBlog - http://www.io.com/~o_m/omworld [ ] Let's face it: Sometimes you *need* [ ] an obnoxious opinion in your day! [ ]=====================================[ -- Greg Moore SQL Server DBA Consulting Remote and Onsite available! Email: sql (at) greenms.com http://www.greenms.com/sqlserver.html Back to top   Ads Advertising Sponsor Paul Cardinale Guest Posted: Sat May 05, 2007 5:45 am    Post subject: Re: MEN ON THE MOON -- Video Remembrance -- Death of Wally S Ed Conrad wrote: Quote: http://www.wilsonsalmanac.com/images1/apollo_11_logo2.jpg http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/b/b7/NYTapollo11walk.jpg/233px-NYTapollo11walk.jpg We pay tribute to Walter M. "Wally" Schirra -- the courageous Mercury, Gemini and Apollo astronaut -- who died this week at age 84. Sadly, Schirra never had an opportunity to step on the moon. He wasn't alone, however. You see, NONE of the U.S. astronauts ever stepped on the moon. Liar. Quote: Certainly not Neil Armstrong nor Michael Collins on July 20, 1969. Nor anyone who came later. Ignoramus. No one has ever said that Collins walked on the Moon. Quote: That was the day we all sat glued to the fuzzy black-and-white pictures on our TV screen to watch it, along with some 600 million other people around the world. We couldn't believe what we were seeing. Were WE ever gullible! It HAD to be true. It couldn't possibly have been a NASA hoax. It couldn't have been a theatrical act done on earth -- or could it? The thought never entered our mind, and anyone who entertained that possibility was castrated with a rusty pocket knife. But, hmmm!, we may have been the victim of a colossal con job. http://www.gaiaguys.net/moontruth.htm Idiot. The source of that is well known. It's a fake of a fake. Made after the Apollo program. Quote: Hmmm! I just wonder what a voice analysis of Neil Armstrong would reveal. Maybe then you'd believe me. No one will ever believe you about anything. You are easily recognizable as a ranting, willfully ignorant lunatic. Paul Cardinale Back to top   Ads Advertising Sponsor Robert Carnegie Guest Posted: Mon May 07, 2007 4:02 am    Post subject: Re: MEN ON THE MOON -- Video Remembrance -- Death of Wally S Brion K. Lienhart wrote: Quote: Mike Schilling wrote: "Ed Conrad" <edconrad@verizon.net> wrote in message news:7l7m33puk9o3l3c2n8p6frhl8uqqglu3rf@4ax.com... Certainly not Neil Armstrong nor Michael Collins on July 20, 1969. Conrad, setting a new personal record, is half right. As far as I'm aware, the moon programme isn't even mentioned in Collins' bio-pic. http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0117039/ Quote: Not that smacky whackjob ever replies to these, but what exactly would be the point of faking the moon landing? Is the whole space program a fake, or just the manned moon landings? Is it a gigantic conspiracy to cover up the fact that the sun really does revolve around the earth? the point would be to appear to have technology to send men to the moon when you don't. A fake propaganda stunt for the American home and Soviet, Chinese, and world audiences. A problem with this, I think, is that the Soviets and Chinese could easily tell whether a rocket actually was launched or not. Wouldn't they detect a fake at once and expose the Americans, their rivals and enemies, to the contempt and ridicule of the world? And aren't the people who deny this admittedly impractical achievement all extraordinarily petty and contemptible liars, doing down great men with great achievements to try vainly to make their own little selves seem less insignificant? And Ed Conrad especially so - to make such use of the announcement of the death of a brave man whose bodily wastes Conrad was never fit to handle. A disadvantage of the theory of evolution is that we must consider ourselves to have an ancestor common with Ed. Back to top   Ads Advertising Sponsor Bill Snyder Guest Posted: Mon May 07, 2007 4:21 am    Post subject: Re: MEN ON THE MOON -- Video Remembrance -- Death of Wally S On 6 May 2007 17:02:20 -0700, Robert Carnegie <rja.carnegie@excite.com> wrote: [re: Moon landings] Quote: And aren't the people who deny this admittedly impractical achievement all extraordinarily petty and contemptible liars, doing down great men with great achievements to try vainly to make their own little selves seem less insignificant? And Ed Conrad especially so - to make such use of the announcement of the death of a brave man whose bodily wastes Conrad was never fit to handle. A disadvantage of the theory of evolution is that we must consider ourselves to have an ancestor common with Ed. Let's don't be parochial. The chimps. bonobos, and gorillas should be given their chance to disown him too. Possibly even the lemurs deserve consideration. -- Bill Snyder [This space unintentionally left blank.] Back to top   Ads Advertising Sponsor Andre Lieven Guest Posted: Mon May 07, 2007 7:12 am    Post subject: Re: MEN ON THE MOON -- Video Remembrance -- Death of Wally S Robert Carnegie (rja.carnegie@excite.com) writes: Quote: Brion K. Lienhart wrote: Mike Schilling wrote: "Ed Conrad" <edconrad@verizon.net> wrote in message news:7l7m33puk9o3l3c2n8p6frhl8uqqglu3rf@4ax.com... Certainly not Neil Armstrong nor Michael Collins on July 20, 1969. Conrad, setting a new personal record, is half right. As far as I'm aware, the moon programme isn't even mentioned in Collins' bio-pic. http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0117039/ Wrong guy. Try amaon.com for " Carrying The Fire; An Astronaut's Journeys ". Excellent read. Quote: Not that smacky whackjob ever replies to these, but what exactly would be the point of faking the moon landing? Is the whole space program a fake, or just the manned moon landings? Is it a gigantic conspiracy to cover up the fact that the sun really does revolve around the earth? the point would be to appear to have technology to send men to the moon when you don't. A fake propaganda stunt for the American home and Soviet, Chinese, and world audiences. A problem with this, I think, is that the Soviets and Chinese could easily tell whether a rocket actually was launched or not. Wouldn't they detect a fake at once and expose the Americans, their rivals and enemies, to the contempt and ridicule of the world? Indeed, and the technology to determine whether a spacecraft was actually transmitting the signals is sufficiently available, that in 1957, one of the first groups getting the electronic details of Sputnik 1 being real, was the... Kettering ( UK ) Boys' School. And, whatever else onemay want to claim was " faked ", over a million USians saw ( and *felt* ) Saturn V 506 - Apollo 11 - launch from Pad 39A. Quote: And aren't the people who deny this admittedly impractical achievement all extraordinarily petty and contemptible liars, doing down great men with great achievements to try vainly to make their own little selves seem less insignificant? Bingo. Quote: And Ed Conrad especially so - to make such use of the announcement of the death of a brave man whose bodily wastes Conrad was never fit to handle. A disadvantage of the theory of evolution is that we must consider ourselves to have an ancestor common with Ed. Again, bingo. Excellent rebuttals of the Moon Denying Wingnuts can be found at badstronomy.com. Andre Back to top   Ads Advertising Sponsor Bran MacEachaidh Guest Posted: Mon May 07, 2007 8:20 am    Post subject: Re: MEN ON THE MOON -- Video Remembrance -- Death of Wally S air an latha 7/05/2007 1:12 PM, sgrìobh Andre Lieven: Quote: Excellent rebuttals of the Moon Denying Wingnuts can be found at badstronomy.com. Andre While I agree with the general conclusions that page comes to, they're hardly "excellent" rebuttals. In many sections of the article, the logic is no better than in the program its ridiculing. (And that's the point: ridicule and general axe-grinding don't consitute counter-argument or disproof, no matter how silly you think the original claims are.) Back to top   Ads Advertising Sponsor Andre Lieven Guest Posted: Mon May 07, 2007 8:49 am    Post subject: Re: MEN ON THE MOON -- Video Remembrance -- Death of Wally S Bran MacEachaidh (bran@tpg.com.au) writes: Quote: air an latha 7/05/2007 1:12 PM, sgrìobh Andre Lieven: Excellent rebuttals of the Moon Denying Wingnuts can be found at badstronomy.com. Andre While I agree with the general conclusions that page comes to, they're hardly "excellent" rebuttals. In many sections of the article, the logic is no better than in the program its ridiculing. Making sport of fools, after one has proven why their beliefs are fact free foolish, is not anywhere equivalent to the kook's claims. Quote: (And that's the point: ridicule and general axe-grinding don't consitute counter-argument or disproof, no matter how silly you think the original claims are.) Nonetheless, the facts stand only on one side; and the denial kooks are on the other one, the one that it not only fact free, but it indeed fact averse. Andre Back to top   Ads Advertising Sponsor Mike Schilling Guest Posted: Mon May 07, 2007 9:39 am    Post subject: Re: MEN ON THE MOON -- Video Remembrance -- Death of Wally S "Robert Carnegie" <rja.carnegie@excite.com> wrote in message news:1178496140.155683.200440@n59g2000hsh.googlegroups.com... Quote: Brion K. Lienhart wrote: Mike Schilling wrote: "Ed Conrad" <edconrad@verizon.net> wrote in message news:7l7m33puk9o3l3c2n8p6frhl8uqqglu3rf@4ax.com... Certainly not Neil Armstrong nor Michael Collins on July 20, 1969. Conrad, setting a new personal record, is half right. As far as I'm aware, the moon programme isn't even mentioned in Collins' bio-pic. http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0117039/ "A free, united, Ireland? Begorrah, men'll walk on the Moon before they see that." Back to top   Ads Advertising Sponsor Bran MacEachaidh Guest Posted: Mon May 07, 2007 2:06 pm    Post subject: Re: MEN ON THE MOON -- Video Remembrance -- Death of Wally S air an latha 7/05/2007 2:49 PM, sgrìobh Andre Lieven: Quote: Bran MacEachaidh (bran@tpg.com.au) writes: air an latha 7/05/2007 1:12 PM, sgrìobh Andre Lieven: Excellent rebuttals of the Moon Denying Wingnuts can be found at badstronomy.com. Andre While I agree with the general conclusions that page comes to, they're hardly "excellent" rebuttals. In many sections of the article, the logic is no better than in the program it's ridiculing. Making sport of fools, after one has proven why their beliefs are fact free foolish, is not anywhere equivalent to the kook's claims. But there's no merit in it, either. Assuming an air of superiority doesn't actually confer either superiority or authority. At best it's just ... unpleasant. (Oh, and most of what you're calling proof, is merely counter-assertion. Not the same thing.) Quote: (And that's the point: ridicule and general axe-grinding don't constitute counter-argument or disproof, no matter how silly you think the original claims are.) Nonetheless, the facts stand only on one side; and the denial kooks are on the other one, the one that it not only fact free, but it indeed fact averse. Much of that article leans not on facts, but on a tone of sly innuendo and subjective hostility. If the facts were so clearly on one side, and the writer was actually confident in that, the personal nastiness wouldn't be necessary, surely. (And let's face it, we're not talking about facts per se, but more about current theories and general consenses.) Seems to me, the point of the article wasn't about the facts, or even good science, but merely about condescension and self-righteousness. Back to top   Ads Advertising Sponsor Robert Carnegie Guest Posted: Mon May 07, 2007 3:12 pm    Post subject: Re: MEN ON THE MOON -- Video Remembrance -- Death of Wally S Bran MacEachaidh wrote: Quote: air an latha 7/05/2007 2:49 PM, sgrìobh Andre Lieven: Bran MacEachaidh (bran@tpg.com.au) writes: air an latha 7/05/2007 1:12 PM, sgrìobh Andre Lieven: Excellent rebuttals of the Moon Denying Wingnuts can be found at badstronomy.com. Andre While I agree with the general conclusions that page comes to, they're hardly "excellent" rebuttals. In many sections of the article, the logic is no better than in the program it's ridiculing. Making sport of fools, after one has proven why their beliefs are fact free foolish, is not anywhere equivalent to the kook's claims. But there's no merit in it, either. Assuming an air of superiority doesn't actually confer either superiority or authority. At best it's just ... unpleasant. (Oh, and most of what you're calling proof, is merely counter-assertion. Not the same thing.) (And that's the point: ridicule and general axe-grinding don't constitute counter-argument or disproof, no matter how silly you think the original claims are.) Nonetheless, the facts stand only on one side; and the denial kooks are on the other one, the one that it not only fact free, but it indeed fact averse. Much of that article leans not on facts, but on a tone of sly innuendo and subjective hostility. If the facts were so clearly on one side, and the writer was actually confident in that, the personal nastiness wouldn't be necessary, surely. (And let's face it, we're not talking about facts per se, but more about current theories and general consenses..) Seems to me, the point of the article wasn't about the facts, or even good science, but merely about condescension and self-righteousness. Do you mean Philip Plait's article, written about a 2001 TV show? I don't see innuendo or hostility - at least not more hostility than is appropriate to the weasels who are getting themselves attention and even making a living by laying out this dishonest and stupid nonsense. Dr Plait's arguments are straightforward, reasonable, and mostly unemotional - he gets snippy about the Apollo 1 "murders", rightly I think. 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