Aeronautics Industry Aeronautics Industry    FAQ   Search   Memberlist   Usergroups   Register   Profile   Log in to check your private messages   Log in  In the Shadow of the Moon Goto page 1, 2  Next          Aeronautics Industry Forum Index -> Aeronautics Industry View previous topic :: View next topic   Author Message Kevin Willoughby Guest Posted: Thu Jun 14, 2007 6:05 am    Post subject: In the Shadow of the Moon http://www.seattlefilm.org/festival/film/detail.aspx?id=23473&fid=32 Anyone seen this film? Is it worth the time to watch it? -- Kevin Willoughby kevinwilloughby@acm.org.invalid Kansas City, this was Air Force One. Will you change our call sign to SAM 27000? -- Col. Ralph Albertazzie Posted Via Usenet.com Premium Usenet Newsgroup Services ---------------------------------------------------------- ** SPEED ** RETENTION ** COMPLETION ** ANONYMITY ** ---------------------------------------------------------- http://www.usenet.com Back to top   Ads Advertising Sponsor BradGuth Guest Posted: Thu Jun 14, 2007 7:07 pm    Post subject: Re: In the Shadow of the Moon On Jun 13, 7:05 pm, Kevin Willoughby <kevinwilloug...@acm.org.invalid> wrote: Quote: http://www.seattlefilm.org/festival/film/detail.aspx?id=23473&fid=32 Anyone seen this film? Is it worth the time to watch it? -- Kevin Willoughby kevinwilloug...@acm.org.invalid Kansas City, this was Air Force One. Will you change our call sign to SAM 27000? -- Col. Ralph Albertazzie Posted Via Usenet.com Premium Usenet Newsgroup Services ---------------------------------------------------------- ** SPEED ** RETENTION ** COMPLETION ** ANONYMITY ** ---------------------------------------------------------- http://www.usenet.com If you're talking about cooling off mother Earth by way of placing our moon into Earth's L1, then we're all saved by the bell (sort of speak). If you're talking about NASA/Apollo crapolla, then you're a damn liar. Controlling the past is the one and only alternative for the likes of our MI/NSA~NASA. - "whoever controls the past, controls the future" / George Orwell - Brad Guth Back to top   Ads Advertising Sponsor Damien Valentine Guest Posted: Sat Jun 16, 2007 12:51 am    Post subject: Re: In the Shadow of the Moon On Jun 14, 8:07 am, BradGuth <bradg...@gmail.com> wrote: Quote: If you're talking about cooling off mother Earth by way of placing our moon into Earth's L1, then we're all saved by the bell (sort of speak)... Brad Guth Aren't the Lagrange points places of orbital stability between _two_ bodies? How can you move the Moon into L1 when it helps define where the L1 point is in the first place? Back to top   Ads Advertising Sponsor Rand Simberg Guest Posted: Sat Jun 16, 2007 1:01 am    Post subject: Re: In the Shadow of the Moon On Fri, 15 Jun 2007 20:51:52 -0000, in a place far, far away, Damien Valentine <valends3@gmail.com> made the phosphor on my monitor glow in such a way as to indicate that: Quote: On Jun 14, 8:07 am, BradGuth <bradg...@gmail.com> wrote: If you're talking about cooling off mother Earth by way of placing our moon into Earth's L1, then we're all saved by the bell (sort of speak)... Brad Guth Aren't the Lagrange points places of orbital stability between _two_ bodies? How can you move the Moon into L1 when it helps define where the L1 point is in the first place? You can't. Guth is nuts. Please killfile him, as most of us have, so we don't have to killfile you. Back to top   Ads Advertising Sponsor BradGuth Guest Posted: Sat Jun 16, 2007 2:26 am    Post subject: Re: In the Shadow of the Moon On Jun 15, 1:51 pm, Damien Valentine <valen...@gmail.com> wrote: Quote: On Jun 14, 8:07 am, BradGuth <bradg...@gmail.com> wrote: If you're talking about cooling off mother Earth by way of placing our moon into Earth's L1, then we're all saved by the bell (sort of speak)... BradGuth Aren't the Lagrange points places of orbital stability between _two_ bodies? Yes Quote: How can you move the Moon into L1 when it helps define where the L1 point is in the first place? Moving our moom from its existing orbit to orbiting instead at Earth's L1 (roughly 4X the current distance), is not going to significantly alter Earth's L1. But, even if it did, so what? Besides, we have the fully interactive 3D simulators that's tell us exactly what'll happen within +/- one meter. BTW of many positive considerations, the moon's L1/Lagrange with Earth (obviously situated between Earth and the moon) gets really interesting once having that 7.35e22 kg mascon worth of such nifty solar isolation relocated out to Earth's L1. Once again, those absolutely nifty orbital simulators are telling us exactly what'll happen, as in no ifs, ands or buts about it. - Brad Guth Back to top   Ads Advertising Sponsor BradGuth Guest Posted: Sat Jun 16, 2007 2:29 am    Post subject: Re: In the Shadow of the Moon On Jun 15, 2:01 pm, simberg.interglo...@org.trash (Rand Simberg) wrote: Quote: You can't. Guth is nuts. Please killfile him, as most of us have, so we don't have to killfile you. Is that your best Zion damage-control tactic? (killfile), or are you still trying to control the past of your kind being Third Reich associated? - "whoever controls the past, controls the future" / George Orwell - Brad Guth Back to top   Ads Advertising Sponsor Steve Vernon Guest Posted: Sat Jun 16, 2007 7:03 am    Post subject: Re: In the Shadow of the Moon "Damien Valentine" <valends3@gmail.com> wrote in message news:1181940712.370652.305940@x35g2000prf.googlegroups.com... Quote: Aren't the Lagrange points places of orbital stability between _two_ bodies? How can you move the Moon into L1 when it helps define where the L1 point is in the first place? If the Moon were to be moved to the "Earth-Sun L1 point" I don't know if it would stay there. Doesn't the stability require M1>M2 and M2>>M3? Is the moon small enough in mass to stay between the Earth and Sun? Back to top   Ads Advertising Sponsor Henry Spencer Guest Posted: Sat Jun 16, 2007 9:53 am    Post subject: Re: In the Shadow of the Moon In article <vvqdnSkv975iz-7bnZ2dnUVZ_oCmnZ2d@comcast.com>, Steve Vernon <stevezaxnospam@comcast.net> wrote: Quote: If the Moon were to be moved to the "Earth-Sun L1 point" I don't know if it would stay there. Doesn't the stability require M1>M2 and M2>>M3? Is the moon small enough in mass to stay between the Earth and Sun? The Moon's mass is only about 1/80th the mass of the Earth, so it's negligible for many orbital-dynamics purposes. (For example, it's so small and moves so fast that you can't get useful intuition about the behavior of orbits in the Earth-Moon system by imagining that the Moon is motionless -- just ignoring its effects entirely is more accurate than ignoring its motion.) *However*, an L1 point is not a stable parking place, regardless of mass. (To be precise, as I recall, it is stable in two dimensions but unstable in the third.) Objects can stay in its vicinity only with regular orbit corrections -- not big corrections, if you do things right, but you do need some. The L4 and L5 points, aka "Trojan" points -- 60 degrees ahead of and behind (e.g.) Earth in its orbit around the Sun -- *are* stable, if perturbations from other bodies are negligible (not always a safe assumption). But L1, L2, and L3, the "in-line" points, are not. -- spsystems.net is temporarily off the air; | Henry Spencer mail to henry at zoo.utoronto.ca instead. | henry@spsystems.net Back to top   Ads Advertising Sponsor BradGuth Guest Posted: Sun Jun 17, 2007 9:42 pm    Post subject: Re: In the Shadow of the Moon On Jun 15, 8:03 pm, "Steve Vernon" <stevezaxnos...@comcast.net> wrote: Quote: "Damien Valentine" <valen...@gmail.com> wrote in message news:1181940712.370652.305940@x35g2000prf.googlegroups.com... Aren't the Lagrange points places of orbital stability between _two_ bodies? How can you move the Moon into L1 when it helps define where the L1 point is in the first place? If the Moon were to be moved to the "Earth-Sun L1 point" I don't know if it would stay there. Doesn't the stability require M1>M2 and M2>>M3? Is the moon small enough in mass to stay between the Earth and Sun? I never suggested a purely passive Earth L1 orbit. I'd mentioned interactive tethers, each with their CM/ISS of mass that's also interactive in order to contend with orbital logistics, which should more than contribute as to interactively keeping that pesky moon of ours parked sufficiently within Earth's L1. - Brad Guth Back to top   Ads Advertising Sponsor BradGuth Guest Posted: Sun Jun 17, 2007 9:46 pm    Post subject: Re: In the Shadow of the Moon On Jun 15, 10:53 pm, h...@spsystems.net (Henry Spencer) wrote: Quote: *However*, an L1 point is not a stable parking place, regardless of mass. (To be precise, as I recall, it is stable in two dimensions but unstable in the third.) Objects can stay in its vicinity only with regular orbit corrections -- not big corrections, if you do things right, but you do need some. I agree, as I always have. Now then, how your about putting that fully interactive 3D orbital simulator to work? (or is that another taboo?) - Brad Guth Back to top   Ads Advertising Sponsor Dr J R Stockton Guest Posted: Sun Jun 17, 2007 11:10 pm    Post subject: Re: In the Shadow of the Moon In sci.space.history message <JJpsCI.Kno@spsystems.net>, Sat, 16 Jun 2007 05:53:06, Henry Spencer <henry@spsystems.net> posted: Quote: The L4 and L5 points, aka "Trojan" points -- 60 degrees ahead of and behind (e.g.) Earth in its orbit around the Sun -- *are* stable, if perturbations from other bodies are negligible (not always a safe assumption). But L1, L2, and L3, the "in-line" points, are not. Strictly, L4 and L5 are not in Earth's orbit around the Sun, taking that as defined by the centre of the Earth. L4 and L5 each form an equilateral triangle with the centres of Earth and Sun; however, the Earth does not orbit the centre of the Sun but the Earth-Sun barycentre. Diagrams at <URL:http://www.merlyn.demon.co.uk/gravity4.htm> for circular orbits; I believe the elliptical case is much the same. Moreover, contrary to what NASA has said, L3 is not further from the primary than the secondary is - though it is further from the barycentre than the secondary is. -- (c) John Stockton, Surrey, UK. ?@merlyn.demon.co.uk Turnpike v6.05 MIME. Web <URL:http://www.merlyn.demon.co.uk/> - FAQqish topics, acronyms & links; Astro stuff via astron-1.htm, gravity0.htm ; quotings.htm, pascal.htm, etc. No Encoding. Quotes before replies. Snip well. Write clearly. Don't Mail News. Back to top   Ads Advertising Sponsor Henry Spencer Guest Posted: Mon Jun 18, 2007 9:08 am    Post subject: Re: In the Shadow of the Moon In article <ha3mbsMncYdGFwOc@invalid.uk.co.demon.merlyn.invalid>, Dr J R Stockton <reply0724@merlyn.demon.co.uk> wrote: Quote: The L4 and L5 points, aka "Trojan" points -- 60 degrees ahead of and behind (e.g.) Earth in its orbit around the Sun -- *are* stable, if... Strictly, L4 and L5 are not in Earth's orbit around the Sun, taking that as defined by the centre of the Earth. Strictly not, no, although the difference in practical cases is so small that it tends to be swamped by the effects of other perturbations. -- spsystems.net is temporarily off the air; | Henry Spencer mail to henry at zoo.utoronto.ca instead. | henry@spsystems.net Back to top   Ads Advertising Sponsor OM Guest Posted: Mon Jun 18, 2007 10:37 am    Post subject: Re: In the Shadow of the Moon On Sun, 17 Jun 2007 20:10:31 +0100, Dr J R Stockton <jrs@merlyn.demon.co.uk> wrote: Quote: Strictly, L4 and L5 are not in Earth's orbit around the Sun, taking that as defined by the centre of the Earth. L4 and L5 each form an equilateral triangle with the centres of Earth and Sun; however, the Earth does not orbit the centre of the Sun but the Earth-Sun barycentre. ....One point that hasn't been made yet: if these points are as stable as claimed, then there's the argument that they should have collected a lot of debris and dust, especially the L4 & L5 points. And yet, so far we haven't detected anything sitting there. OM -- ]=====================================[ ] OMBlog - http://www.io.com/~o_m/omworld [ ] Let's face it: Sometimes you *need* [ ] an obnoxious opinion in your day! [ ]=====================================[ Back to top   Ads Advertising Sponsor BradGuth Guest Posted: Mon Jun 18, 2007 5:12 pm    Post subject: Re: In the Shadow of the Moon Placing our moon into Earth's L1 would give us exactly what "shadow of the moon" we badly need. Therefore, half of our salty moon gets roasted to death, while the backside that's facing Earth remains frozen to death, with only earthshine illuminating it's physically dark surface. - Brad Guth Back to top   Ads Advertising Sponsor Jonathan Guest Posted: Tue Jun 19, 2007 1:37 am    Post subject: Re: In the Shadow of the Moon "OM" <om@all_trolls_must_DIE.com> wrote in message news:kv9c73p86higvkmdhpo3857bp1gln7md44@4ax.com... Quote: On Sun, 17 Jun 2007 20:10:31 +0100, Dr J R Stockton jrs@merlyn.demon.co.uk> wrote: Strictly, L4 and L5 are not in Earth's orbit around the Sun, taking that as defined by the centre of the Earth. L4 and L5 each form an equilateral triangle with the centres of Earth and Sun; however, the Earth does not orbit the centre of the Sun but the Earth-Sun barycentre. ...One point that hasn't been made yet: if these points are as stable as claimed, then there's the argument that they should have collected a lot of debris and dust, especially the L4 & L5 points. And yet, so far we haven't detected anything sitting there. Sure there is according to this. It only takes about 30 seconds to check facts these days. You should try it. "A number of asteroids have been found to occupy Jupiter's L4 and L5 points, orbiting the Sun at the same distance as Jupiter, and 60° ahead and behind it. These asteroids bear the names of Trojan heroes, so the L4 point and the L5 point are often called 'Trojan points', with L4 holding the 'leading Trojans' and L5 the 'trailing Trojans'. Recently a few small asteroids have been found in the Trojan points of Mars, and there is an accumulation of dust at the Earth's Trojan points, but no asteroids." http://www.bbc.co.uk/dna/filmnetwork/A947333 Quote: OM -- ]=====================================[ ] OMBlog - http://www.io.com/~o_m/omworld [ ] Let's face it: Sometimes you *need* [ ] an obnoxious opinion in your day! [ ]=====================================[ Back to top   Ads Advertising Sponsor Display posts from previous: All Posts1 Day7 Days2 Weeks1 Month3 Months6 Months1 Year Oldest FirstNewest First         Aeronautics Industry Forum Index -> Aeronautics Industry All times are GMT Goto page 1, 2  Next Page 1 of 2   Jump to: Select a forum Aeronautics Industry----------------Aeronautics Industry  You cannot post new topics in this forum You cannot reply to topics in this forum You cannot edit your posts in this forum You cannot delete your posts in this forum You cannot vote in polls in this forum Australian Debt Consolidation Experts medical insurance Wedding Ring Escort e accompagnatrice in Rimini, Reggio Emilia, in Riviera Adriatica, in Modena... Swinging in Spain Singapore cheap life insurance Make Your Own Website Free calls to Pakistan Long island Cleaning service black mold UK Swingers Genuine Contacts Site Porn Links breakroom supplies Free Porn Vacuum Cleaner Parts 199 Attacks blocked Powered by phpBB © 2001, 2005 phpBB Group