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kT
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jg
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 Posted: Fri May 25, 2007 10:17 am Post subject: Re: NASAspaceflight.com - Censors the John Young - Ares I T |
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What was the subject of the thread?
jg
"kT" <cosmic@lifeform.org> wrote in message
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Alfred S. Dert
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| Posted: Fri May 25, 2007 10:54 am Post subject: Re: NASAspaceflight.com - Censors the John Young - Ares I T |
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jg wrote:
It was "John Young: Ares I won't work, announcement coming May 23"
Check the Google cache. |
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Danny Deger
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| Posted: Fri May 25, 2007 3:55 pm Post subject: Re: NASAspaceflight.com - Censors the John Young - Ares I T |
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"Alfred S. Dert" <asdert@web.de> wrote in message
news:f3616h$rt2$1@online.de...
| Quote: |
jg wrote:
snip
It was "John Young: Ares I won't work, announcement coming May 23"
Check the Google cache.
|
Check out this link:
http://collectspace.com/ubb/Forum39/HTML/000114.html
Aviation week is stating Orion is already 3,000 pounds over weight. I don't
see how NASA can fix this weight problem without a major reduction in
requirements.
Danny Deger |
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Greg D. Moore (Strider)
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| Posted: Fri May 25, 2007 5:45 pm Post subject: Re: NASAspaceflight.com - Censors the John Young - Ares I T |
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"Danny Deger" <dannydeger@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:4656cef8$0$8933$4c368faf@roadrunner.com...
| Quote: |
"Alfred S. Dert" <asdert@web.de> wrote in message
news:f3616h$rt2$1@online.de...
jg wrote:
snip
It was "John Young: Ares I won't work, announcement coming May 23"
Check the Google cache.
Check out this link:
http://collectspace.com/ubb/Forum39/HTML/000114.html
Aviation week is stating Orion is already 3,000 pounds over weight. I
don't see how NASA can fix this weight problem without a major reduction
in requirements.
|
Yeah, generally not a good sign when you start 3000 lbs overweight and you
haven't even bent metal yet.
--
Greg Moore
SQL Server DBA Consulting Remote and Onsite available!
Email: sql (at) greenms.com http://www.greenms.com/sqlserver.html |
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kT
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| Posted: Fri May 25, 2007 6:37 pm Post subject: Re: NASAspaceflight.com - Censors the John Young - Ares I T |
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Greg D. Moore (Strider) wrote:
| Quote: |
It was "John Young: Ares I won't work, announcement coming May 23"
Check the Google cache.
Check out this link:
http://collectspace.com/ubb/Forum39/HTML/000114.html
Aviation week is stating Orion is already 3,000 pounds over weight. I
don't see how NASA can fix this weight problem without a major reduction
in requirements.
Yeah, generally not a good sign when you start 3000 lbs overweight and you
haven't even bent metal yet.
|
They were doing some major whacking on that thread before they whacked
it completely. People were just bringing up too many horrible realities
and too many creative solutions that the NASA weenies couldn't handle.
--
Get A Free Orbiter Space Flight Simulator :
http://orbit.medphys.ucl.ac.uk/orbit.html |
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Alfred S. Dert
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| Posted: Fri May 25, 2007 7:00 pm Post subject: Re: NASAspaceflight.com - Censors the John Young - Ares I T |
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kT wrote:
| Quote: |
They were doing some major whacking on that thread before they whacked
it completely. People were just bringing up too many horrible realities
and too many creative solutions that the NASA weenies couldn't handle.
|
nasaspaceflight.com is not NASA.
From http://www.nasaspaceflight.com/about/ :
"The website of NASASpaceFlight.com is maintained by a group of
professional journalists and webmasters. " |
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Herb Schaltegger
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| Posted: Fri May 25, 2007 7:06 pm Post subject: Re: NASAspaceflight.com - Censors the John Young - Ares I T |
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Greg D. Moore (Strider) wrote:
| Quote: |
"Danny Deger" <dannydeger@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:4656cef8$0$8933$4c368faf@roadrunner.com...
"Alfred S. Dert" <asdert@web.de> wrote in message
news:f3616h$rt2$1@online.de...
jg wrote:
snip
It was "John Young: Ares I won't work, announcement coming May 23"
Check the Google cache.
Check out this link:
http://collectspace.com/ubb/Forum39/HTML/000114.html
Aviation week is stating Orion is already 3,000 pounds over weight. I
don't see how NASA can fix this weight problem without a major reduction
in requirements.
Yeah, generally not a good sign when you start 3000 lbs overweight and you
haven't even bent metal yet.
|
Hate to break it to you, but just about EVERY modern aerospace project
ends up overweight right about the time you start approaching PDR
(Preliminary Design Review) and then the project goes on a huge diet.
I think this is a result of over-optimistic initial design concepts
(usually made with pretty CAD-generated color 3D models of generic parts
plugged into one another like virtual Legos) that ignore some things
that end up being very important down the line - things like connectors,
fasteners and couplings (which add a lot more weight than you realize).
Those initial pretty picture models (and weight estimates generated
therefrom) also ignore stuff like structural stiffeners and
reinforcements that end up being required once launch/landing
acceleration, acoustic and vibrational analysis studies are performed.
--
Fear is the path to the dark side...
Fear leads to anger...
Anger leads to hate...
Hate leads to banjos...
Banjos lead to suffering! |
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kT
Guest
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| Posted: Fri May 25, 2007 7:07 pm Post subject: Re: NASAspaceflight.com - Censors the John Young - Ares I T |
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Alfred S. Dert wrote:
| Quote: |
kT wrote:
They were doing some major whacking on that thread before they whacked
it completely. People were just bringing up too many horrible
realities and too many creative solutions that the NASA weenies
couldn't handle.
nasaspaceflight.com is not NASA.
From http://www.nasaspaceflight.com/about/ :
"The website of NASASpaceFlight.com is maintained by a group of
professional journalists and webmasters. "
|
That's what I said : 'NASA weenies'.
You need to work on your critical reading skills. I can suggest many
reputable theoretical physicists for private consultation and therapy.
--
Get A Free Orbiter Space Flight Simulator :
http://orbit.medphys.ucl.ac.uk/orbit.html |
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kT
Guest
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| Posted: Fri May 25, 2007 7:09 pm Post subject: Re: NASAspaceflight.com - Censors the John Young - Ares I T |
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Herb Schaltegger wrote:
| Quote: |
Greg D. Moore (Strider) wrote:
"Danny Deger" <dannydeger@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:4656cef8$0$8933$4c368faf@roadrunner.com...
"Alfred S. Dert" <asdert@web.de> wrote in message
news:f3616h$rt2$1@online.de...
jg wrote:
snip
It was "John Young: Ares I won't work, announcement coming May 23"
Check the Google cache.
Check out this link:
http://collectspace.com/ubb/Forum39/HTML/000114.html
Aviation week is stating Orion is already 3,000 pounds over weight. I
don't see how NASA can fix this weight problem without a major reduction
in requirements.
Yeah, generally not a good sign when you start 3000 lbs overweight and you
haven't even bent metal yet.
Hate to break it to you, but just about EVERY modern aerospace project
ends up overweight right about the time you start approaching PDR
(Preliminary Design Review) and then the project goes on a huge diet.
I think this is a result of over-optimistic initial design concepts
(usually made with pretty CAD-generated color 3D models of generic parts
plugged into one another like virtual Legos) that ignore some things
that end up being very important down the line - things like connectors,
fasteners and couplings (which add a lot more weight than you realize).
Those initial pretty picture models (and weight estimates generated
therefrom) also ignore stuff like structural stiffeners and
reinforcements that end up being required once launch/landing
acceleration, acoustic and vibrational analysis studies are performed.
|
Which is why SSTO enthusiasts are so enthusiastic about single stage to
orbit space flight. SSTO is by definition overweight. It's a challenge. |
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Brian Gaff
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| Posted: Fri May 25, 2007 7:29 pm Post subject: Re: NASAspaceflight.com - Censors the John Young - Ares I T |
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Erm, surely its precisely when you need to know, as who wants to bend metal
only to find you wasted a ton of money on it up to that point.
Brian
--
Brian Gaff - briang1@blueyonder.co.uk
Note:- In order to reduce spam, any email without 'Brian Gaff'
in the display name may be lost.
Blind user, so no pictures please!
"Greg D. Moore (Strider)" <mooregr_deleteth1s@greenms.com> wrote in message
news:1MB5i.18914$3P3.9661@newsread3.news.pas.earthlink.net...
| Quote: |
"Danny Deger" <dannydeger@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:4656cef8$0$8933$4c368faf@roadrunner.com...
"Alfred S. Dert" <asdert@web.de> wrote in message
news:f3616h$rt2$1@online.de...
jg wrote:
snip
It was "John Young: Ares I won't work, announcement coming May 23"
Check the Google cache.
Check out this link:
http://collectspace.com/ubb/Forum39/HTML/000114.html
Aviation week is stating Orion is already 3,000 pounds over weight. I
don't see how NASA can fix this weight problem without a major reduction
in requirements.
Yeah, generally not a good sign when you start 3000 lbs overweight and you
haven't even bent metal yet.
Danny Deger
--
Greg Moore
SQL Server DBA Consulting Remote and Onsite available!
Email: sql (at) greenms.com
http://www.greenms.com/sqlserver.html
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Brian Gaff
Guest
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| Posted: Fri May 25, 2007 7:32 pm Post subject: Re: NASAspaceflight.com - Censors the John Young - Ares I T |
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It makes you realise what amazing designs have gone before really.
Besides, if I may proffer my few penneth here, this vision is a Shrub
creation, and thus, I'd imagine that some in Nasa are expecting it to be cut
back or cancelled buy the democrat who gets in next time...:-)
Brian
--
Brian Gaff - briang1@blueyonder.co.uk
Note:- In order to reduce spam, any email without 'Brian Gaff'
in the display name may be lost.
Blind user, so no pictures please!
"kT" <cosmic@lifeform.org> wrote in message
news:i0D5i.7$Et5.4@newsfe06.lga...
| Quote: |
Herb Schaltegger wrote:
Greg D. Moore (Strider) wrote:
"Danny Deger" <dannydeger@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:4656cef8$0$8933$4c368faf@roadrunner.com...
"Alfred S. Dert" <asdert@web.de> wrote in message
news:f3616h$rt2$1@online.de...
jg wrote:
snip
It was "John Young: Ares I won't work, announcement coming May 23"
Check the Google cache.
Check out this link:
http://collectspace.com/ubb/Forum39/HTML/000114.html
Aviation week is stating Orion is already 3,000 pounds over weight. I
don't see how NASA can fix this weight problem without a major
reduction in requirements.
Yeah, generally not a good sign when you start 3000 lbs overweight and
you haven't even bent metal yet.
Hate to break it to you, but just about EVERY modern aerospace project
ends up overweight right about the time you start approaching PDR
(Preliminary Design Review) and then the project goes on a huge diet.
I think this is a result of over-optimistic initial design concepts
(usually made with pretty CAD-generated color 3D models of generic parts
plugged into one another like virtual Legos) that ignore some things
that end up being very important down the line - things like connectors,
fasteners and couplings (which add a lot more weight than you realize).
Those initial pretty picture models (and weight estimates generated
therefrom) also ignore stuff like structural stiffeners and
reinforcements that end up being required once launch/landing
acceleration, acoustic and vibrational analysis studies are performed.
Which is why SSTO enthusiasts are so enthusiastic about single stage to
orbit space flight. SSTO is by definition overweight. It's a challenge. |
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OM
Guest
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| Posted: Fri May 25, 2007 8:31 pm Post subject: Re: NASAspaceflight.com - Censors the John Young - Ares I T |
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On Fri, 25 May 2007 17:00:54 +0200, "Alfred S. Dert" <asdert@web.de>
wrote:
| Quote: |
Tommy Lee Elfritz, neo-Nazi troll, farted:
They were doing some major whacking on that thread before they whacked
it completely. People were just bringing up too many horrible realities
and too many creative solutions that the NASA weenies couldn't handle.
|
....Spoken like the deplorable, anti-NASA, anti-semitic, self-confessed
neo-Nazi troll you are, Elfritz. Why you haven't done us a favor and
killed yourself escapes explanation.
| Quote: |
nasaspaceflight.com is not NASA.
From http://www.nasaspaceflight.com/about/ :
"The website of NASASpaceFlight.com is maintained by a group of
professional journalists and webmasters. "
|
....You forgot to add "seeking to make a profit off of repackaging
materials that the taxpayers have already paid for." after
"webmasters."
OM
--
]=====================================[
] OMBlog - http://www.io.com/~o_m/omworld [
] Let's face it: Sometimes you *need* [
] an obnoxious opinion in your day! [
]=====================================[ |
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Danny Deger
Guest
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| Posted: Fri May 25, 2007 11:47 pm Post subject: Re: NASAspaceflight.com - Censors the John Young - Ares I T |
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"Herb Schaltegger" <herb.schaltegger@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:f36u2d02p26@news3.newsguy.com...
snip
| Quote: |
Hate to break it to you, but just about EVERY modern aerospace project
ends up overweight right about the time you start approaching PDR
(Preliminary Design Review) and then the project goes on a huge diet.
I think this is a result of over-optimistic initial design concepts
(usually made with pretty CAD-generated color 3D models of generic parts
plugged into one another like virtual Legos) that ignore some things
that end up being very important down the line - things like connectors,
fasteners and couplings (which add a lot more weight than you realize).
Those initial pretty picture models (and weight estimates generated
therefrom) also ignore stuff like structural stiffeners and
reinforcements that end up being required once launch/landing
acceleration, acoustic and vibrational analysis studies are performed.
|
Well said. When I worked on Orion there were large "management reserves" in
the early program for cost, weight, and schedule. For example if the
engineer's estimate for weight was 40,000, the official estimate for weight
became 44,000 to help make up for the things you discribe.
Also, keep in mind each potential vendor when the program is being competed
is graded to a large extent on weight. When I worked for Rockwell Missile
Systems, we would sometime tell bold face lies about the the estimated
weight of a projected missile to get the contract. We used to say (to
ourselves) we would build the missile out of "non-obtainium" to make the
weight limit.
I do hope Orion/Ares I can fix its weight problems wihout too big of a hit
on the requirements. One "easy" fix would be to take the crew back down to
4. The crew went from 4 to 6 about the time I left the program and I recall
throw weight to orbit being a major concern if we went to 6 people. It
looks like it was a big problem.
Danny Deger
> |
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Pat Flannery
Guest
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| Posted: Sat May 26, 2007 1:01 am Post subject: Re: NASAspaceflight.com - Censors the John Young - Ares I T |
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kT wrote:
| Quote: |
Greg D. Moore (Strider) wrote:
It was "John Young: Ares I won't work, announcement coming May 23"
Check the Google cache.
Check out this link:
http://collectspace.com/ubb/Forum39/HTML/000114.html
Aviation week is stating Orion is already 3,000 pounds over weight.
I don't see how NASA can fix this weight problem without a major
reduction in requirements.
Yeah, generally not a good sign when you start 3000 lbs overweight
and you haven't even bent metal yet.
They were doing some major whacking on that thread before they whacked
it completely. People were just bringing up too many horrible
realities and too many creative solutions that the NASA weenies
couldn't handle.
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